I know your right about European companies outsource differently than US And I know for sure you can get quality parts from China as well.

As to why europe is like that? I don't know.

I can tell you this I don't quote european customers for several reasons.

1) they allways want shipping and duties paid

2) They want it quoted in their money.

3) I can't very often find them with a complete print. They have this unwritten rule that they get to make up as they go about what they realy want.

Take a look at a NASA or other high level US aerospace RFQ.

not only is it complete. it usually is accompanied with a CAD model with a descriptive understanding of whats important or whats not.

and THAT is why US companies are more concerned with the price. 9 of 10 times the drawing leaves nothing to question about what they want.

Europeans will say something like general tolerance .1 mm and then they "unwritten rule here"

expect that to be held every where from everything including where ever they wish to aply it,

or not.

You see, they get to over ride anything at their discretion.

By sheer interpretation of their drawings, They aren't interested in playing fair with vendors and make every attempt to dominate the business transaction by stipulating all the rules.

at least from this vendor, it just gets them ignored.

I have lots of options its not a big loss.

Well anyways as far as the european market? maybe. but for right now I've pretty much got my plate full. I actually turn down or don't respond to over half my domestic invited RFQ's pursuing european buyers makes sense though I might be able to offer them a better deal beacause of the weak dollar right now. I'm deliberately staying small. no more than a couple employees and I'm going to automate all machinery to the point of robots running the machines. I figure its going to take me about 5 more years. Paying top dollar for skilled employess isn't making sense anymore. I can do more with a couple networked CNC machines than an entire work force of skilled labor and I'm getting better at it every day.

I'm trying to move away from being a job shop. I'm starting to market some special tooling as my own line of product. Looking for a higher profit margin. I can do the job shop parts probably better now than ever and with less skilled labor and compete better than ever however the opportunities that are revealing themselves now look just too good. I think I can hit the global stage with marketable product, specifically perishable tooling.

One of these days I'm sure the global environment will be one but untill then I don't like the way the europeans outsource. I've never seen an RFQ that didn't ask for it to be quoted in the euro or one that didn't want it DDP My information maybe skewed a little though because the only european RFQ's Ive seen have been on MFG or sourcing parts. And I don't believe I should ever have to submit my interpretation of the drawing and the quality I think its asking for. I feel I should be able to make the part on the drawing without ever talking to anyone about what they want.

The drawing or print should describe every conceivable aspect of the part in every way. Isn't that the purpose of having a print? anything less to me is just a sketch and I don't quote sketches.

Also I've said it in another discussion I think, Latin is a language adopted as a standard for medical text so that the world can read on about all the new things discovered by a global comunity and that was done in the 18th century I believe. No I don't believe anyone here is selling a set of standards you have to buy other than a set of joe blocks or something. I'm not convinced that a buyer can or is going to be able to use a standard that requires a perspective suplyer to buy into to be able to interpret the drawing. Thats beyond retarded in thinking and doesn't go well with a global market and flies right in the face of open sourcing. Its not even suportive of getting accurate quotes from your own local vendors much less around the globe.

I'm a journeyman Tool Maker of 30 years. I can make pretty much any tool you could imagine for any purpose. I aprenticed on machines that didn't even have a DRO I learned to figure and back figure math quicker than most people can find their calculator. Today I have an entire tool shop full of networked CNC machinery. There is nothing you could imagine that I couldn't make here. Read some of my other discussions and blog you'll figure out who I am and what kind of tools I can make.

I'm going to say it again, the purpose of the drawing is to convey all aspects of the part so that it can be manufactured. There is no reason for any amount of colaboration if the drawing is complete. anything less than a complete drawing is a sketch. Even a sketch can have all the information necesary. A drawing that has reference to a hidden or proprietary code of standards is simply asking for problems. Any company using such a standard isn't genuine about globally sourcing their parts. They are extorting money and time that doesn't belong to them.

Its too easy to just make a drawing that anyone can understand. Even if they speak a different language. I don't know chinese or latin but I bet I could make a perfect sketch that a man in China could use to make my part accurately and I could do this without even trying. There is more than a sufficient number of ways to dimension and tolerance a drawing accurately and completely So I'll hold my ground on this. Buyers may indeed be looking for vendors to work closer with them to develop their stuff and I've more than once made recomendations or sugested changes to help the manufacture of their parts, the more I do this the more I realize that the buyers are just taking advantage of what I know. I simply find a way to get them to pay more I guess. however i'm not going to put up with this being deliberately incorporated in the drawings. I should not have to colaborate with anyone about the interpretation of a drawing. I'm finding it more insulting than ever if a company is deliberately incorporating the need to colaborate in their drawings by loosely sketching the part so as to require colaboration on the interpretation.

I think that as time goes on and open sourcing becomes more prevelent the corporations that are distributing this trash will get spanked because its not a working formula. Its a recipe to steal from the vendors.