George, looks like it's just you and me here this morning!:-) Regarding China - I have not sourced parts there myself but our shop does a LOT of 'fix it' work on parts originally sourced from China. I'm not dissing all Chinese parts as 'bad'. I find, from my customers'' comments, that much depends on the volume of parts you are needing and, most important, the production quality of the shop you're sourcing (it's a long way to go to return stuff:-). One of our customers constantly has to send his machined parts to us to be 'fixed' but figures that the cost differential is still worth it. Other buyers, particularly those who are sourcing less than 1000 parts per order, find it's not worth the problems in terms of lead time, quality, etc as it often ends up costing them more in terms of time and trouble, in the end. Like I said, for most of my customers volume seems to be the determinant.

It will be interesting to see what other buyers have to say on the subject.

For every part we have seen going out to China, India, Brazil and so on we have seen another coming back the other way in the last year or so. There have certainly been success stories in LCCS but there have also been a lot of failures, as James says it takes a very proactive buyer to make a success of a LCCS venture.

Furthermore the competition of low labour costs in places like China have forced domestic manufacturers is invest in automation and improved quality such that the cost advantages have narrowed over recent years, domestic does not have to match overseas it just has to be close enough to not make the hassles worthwhile. I think a part of the strong US market performance over the last 10+yrs has been the improvement in domestic productivity as a result of low cost country competition.

In answer to what makes a LCCS venture succesful, communication yes, but also feet on the ground, if they are not your feet then they had better be some-one elses who you can trust to look after your interests. If there is to be a quality problem make sure it is spottted at the manufacturers factory gate not yours.

Hi this is Sam from Mimasu Engineering Inc. yes, it is always a tricky situation to source from India, china or somewhere else. I have been doing buying , manufaturing from India since 1995 and it is always a battle to get the parts RIGHT the first time...not easy. Constant communications, dealing with the local culture, customs, way of doing businesss compare to western society, to make sure the sample and production quality is the same (many cases not..) lot to watch out. I am based here in Suwanee, GA USA and my client feels comfortable to do business with me rather then doing directly ude to above said reasons. We have our own team of people who checks the quality of the parts before putting on the plane or a boat. For rough forgings, castings, it does make sense due to price but I would highly recomand to keep the final machinig here if yoy can do it and afford it.
Let me know if I can be any further help to source parts from India. Good Luck.
Regards,
Sam Gujjar

I've come to believe the two guys above, Sam at Mimasu and James, have identified a key point in the success of off shore sourcing with their emphasis on communication and diligence. I just awarded my first job thru mfg.com, it is off shore and coincidentally it happens to be Mimasu. I am much more comfortable working with someone on this side of the ocean and letting him handle the other side and even with that Sam and I spent several hours pouring over details to make sure we have complete understanding. I'm confident that our work will be a success.

I have another job coming up for award soon. I rec'd several quotes from China but only one of them told me of another US company they are currently supplying to. As James stated above that is certainly a good thing to know, I talked with the Buyer at that company and he gave them a good recommendation. He said they did have some problems initially but he was emphatic that the problems were simply due to communication errors and cautioned me on it. Looks like we may be getting some good advice in this forum

Anita is correct - volume is key.

But, I also have found that companies that operate inefficiently, to begin with, are more likely to see overseas sourcing as a good option.

I always urge my clients to examine their processes - often they could be doing much more with less right here in the US. Big companies like IBM are way overstaffed and low labor, of course, looks great. You will find that interest in outsourcing diminishes as you get to leaner, smaller companies.

If they got efficient, they would see little or no savings. I did a cost analysis, for a NY manufacturer 10 years ago for sending a welded unit to Asia. After factoring in shipping and warehousing (needed to protect delivery commitments) I couldn't come up with a savings even if their labor was zero!

Needless to say they sent the job to Asia anyway. But, two years ago they brought their manufacturing back to Upstate NY. The CEO said that after they factored in shipping, warehousing, delivery and quality problems, it was actually costing them to keep the operation overseas ( I love being right!).

Another thing to consider is your design - an experienced design engineer, with a manufacturing background, will design your parts and product to require minimum labor. Designs from China are usually, high labor required ( Remember, they sell labor hours). I also, have had plenty of work, fixing China's & India's designs - they are a reflection of their inefficient US benefactors.

The Chinese and Indian engineers are smart and talented like anyone else. But if you take a detailed look at the advantages of going overseas and compare to the advantages of efficient design & manufacturing, efficiency wins hands-down almost every time.

I've been sourcing parts and assemblies from Asia since early 1980's.
Communication is a major key. IF everyone fully understands what is expected and what guidelines are to be used you cannot fail. It helps to learn the language, not mandatory. it helps to tour the factory, see the "briks and mortar" and as well unserstand the folks you will be working with.
Team atmosphere is important, spend time getting to set up relation ships, and know your counterpart.

Well put Anita and we are seeing evidence of this already as the more savvy buyers are making better informed judgements as to what to source domestically and what to source from LCCS. China and other LCCS will certainly play there part for volume buyers with the time and energy to closely manage the supply chain in the way that James outlined earlier. But experience is showing that it is not the solution for all cost reduction efforts and quality/reliability varies from country to country.
Has anyone had experience to support the idea that India or Brazil can prove to be more reliable sources from the quality, ontime delivery or protection of IP point of view?
Sounds like I know where to come for my Harley now.